Frequently Raised Objections - Revision history

Strangelv: /* Sources of Objections */ Adding _How to Debate Libertarians on Taxes — And Destroy Them_

2021-04-05T09:55:23Z

Sources of Objections: Adding _How to Debate Libertarians on Taxes — And Destroy Them_

Strangelv: Pasting a short list of examples by Thomas Woods

2020-01-07T10:22:11Z

Pasting a short list of examples by Thomas Woods

Strangelv: /* Meta-Notes */ untruncating word

2017-08-14T18:33:35Z

Meta-Notes: untruncating word

Strangelv: Should have thought of this immediately -- it's perhaps the most widely touted objection.

2017-08-14T18:32:04Z

Should have thought of this immediately -- it's perhaps the most widely touted objection.

Strangelv: I'm adding things too slowly; probably being too organized about adding things here at this this step (and maybe not organized enough looking).

2017-08-07T11:39:16Z

I'm adding things too slowly; probably being too organized about adding things here at this this step (and maybe not organized enough looking).

Strangelv: Adding what might be described as meta-notes

2017-08-06T11:32:50Z

Adding what might be described as meta-notes

Strangelv: Throwing something together. This can and probably should get really long. Maybe sell this as a book?

2017-08-06T06:13:46Z

Throwing something together. This can and probably should get really long. Maybe sell this as a book?

New page

{{Brainstorm}}

What are the main objections to libertarianism, especially strongly libertarian, minarchist, anarchist, et c? Notable objections? Potentially entertaining objections?

What are some great responses to these objections?

Note that not everything is word-for-word from its credited source.

Q: But since libertarians don't like roads, there is no right to travel anyway. [Source: a Facebook comment]

Q: Men from the state with guns showing up at your house is enforcement of contract, not theft or coercion. [Source: Non-Libertarian FAQ]

Q: Take them to a restaurant and see if they think it ethical to walk out without paying because they didn't sign anything. The Social Contract is valid. Pay up. [Source: Non-Libertarian FAQ]

Q: Love it or leave it.

Q: Why should you be told what to do with your property? What makes you so sure it is yours? [Source: Non-Libertarian FAQ]

Q: For a person to have a fighting chance of making it in the world, they need the right start. [Source:Strafio, My Objections to Libertarianism]

Q: Opportunities are limited. Career status is pyramidal and there will always be people at the bottom. [Source:Strafio, My Objections to Libertarianism]

Q: Without state laws, how will cheating and corruption be prevented? [Source:Strafio, My Objections to Libertarianism]

Q: But what about the roads?

Q: But what about the downtrodden?

Q: But what about the oligarchs?

Q: "There should be consumer protection laws" is the sentiment that I have gathered as being the libertarian norm. Anarcho-capitalists who wrongly call themselves 'libertarians' will disagree. [Jormungander's response to Strafio, My Objections to Libertarianism]

Q: At its heart Libertarianism is incredibly selfish. [Source: Why Libertarianism is Wrong by Alex Patton]

Q: There are some societal functions that do not respond to markets. [Source: Why Libertarianism is Wrong by Alex Patton]

Q: If markets are completely unregulated, then all market segments will naturally move towards monopolies. [Source: Why Libertarianism is Wrong by Alex Patton]

Q: Libertarianism is cruel. [Source: Why Libertarianism is Wrong by Alex Patton]

Q: When disputes arise, who decides? [Source: Why Libertarianism is Wrong by Alex Patton]

Q: Humans are not wired for Libertarianism. [Source: Why Libertarianism is Wrong by Alex Patton]

Q: No Libertarian can make a coherent argument of HOW to get to a Libertarian vision. [Source: Why Libertarianism is Wrong by Alex Patton]

Q: You're just the cronies of the 1%.

Q: Your ideals fail in the real world.

Q: What we have works.

==Sources of Objections==
*[http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/19707 Strafio, My Objections to Libertarianism]
*[http://world.std.com/~mhuben/faq.html Non-Libertarian FAQ]
*[http://ozeanmedia.com/political-consulting/why-libertarianism-is-wrong/ Why Libertarianism is Wrong]

Note that if we want to make a book from this (it could easily get long enough) we have some decisions about how far we're going to stretch fair use. Especially as most of the sources we'd be referencing aren't going to be happy about our book or being targeted by it. Especially as some sources have pretty much the entirety of the raised objections pasted here.

Might be good to organize by types of objection. Maybe use the books on Murphaen philosophy as a structural reference.

@@ Line 123: / Line 123: @@
 *[http://www.demos.org/blog/10/28/13/libertarians-are-huge-fans-economic-coercion Libertarians Are Huge Fans of Economic Coercion]
 *http://www.stationnews.net/news/what-s-wrong-with-libertarianism
+*[https://jacobinmag.com/2020/07/libertarian-taxation-property-rights/ How to Debate Libertarians on Taxes — And Destroy Them]
 [[Category:Proposed Materials]]

@@ Line 87: / Line 87: @@
 Q: What happens when one of the inevitable downturns of laissez-faire sends it all into a depression and everyone's out of work? [Paraphrased from http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=22657]
@@ Line 94: / Line 98: @@
 ==Meta-Notes==
 Note that if we want to make a book from this (it could easily get long enough) we have some decisions about how far we're going to stretch fair use.  Especially as most of the sources we'd be referencing aren't going to be happy about our book or being targeted by it.  Especially as some sources have pretty much the entirety of their raised objections pasted here.

@@ Line 95: / Line 95: @@
 ==Meta-Notes==
-Note that if we want to make a book from this (it could easily get long enough) we have some decisions about how far we're going to stretch fair use.  Especially as most of the sources we'd be referencing aren't going to be happy about our book or being targeted by it.  Especially as some sources have pretty much the entirety of the raised objections pasted here.
+Note that if we want to make a book from this (it could easily get long enough) we have some decisions about how far we're going to stretch fair use.  Especially as most of the sources we'd be referencing aren't going to be happy about our book or being targeted by it.  Especially as some sources have pretty much the entirety of their raised objections pasted here.
 ===Sorting===
@@ Line 112: / Line 112: @@
 *Death
 *Taxes
 ==Sources of Objections==

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:32, 14 August 2017
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	Note that not everything is word-for-word from its credited source.		Note that not everything is word-for-word from its credited source.
		+
		+
		+	Q: ROADS!

@@ Line 11: / Line 11: @@
-Q: Men from the state with guns showing up at your house is enforcement of contract, not theft or coercion. [Source: Non-Libertarian FAQ]
+Q: Men from the state with guns showing up at your house is enforcement of contract, not theft or coercion. [Paraphrased from the Non-Libertarian FAQ]
-Q: Take them to a restaurant and see if they think it ethical to walk out without paying because they didn't sign anything.  The Social Contract is valid.  Pay up. [Source: Non-Libertarian FAQ]
+Q: Take them to a restaurant and see if they think it ethical to walk out without paying because they didn't sign anything.  The Social Contract is valid.  Pay up. [Paraphrased from the Non-Libertarian FAQ]
@@ Line 20: / Line 20: @@
-Q: Why should you be told what to do with your property? What makes you so sure it is yours? [Source: Non-Libertarian FAQ]
+Q: Why should you be told what to do with your property? What makes you so sure it is yours? [Paraphrased from the Non-Libertarian FAQ]
@@ Line 71: / Line 71: @@
 Q: What we have works.
@@ Line 98: / Line 115: @@
 *[http://world.std.com/~mhuben/faq.html Non-Libertarian FAQ]
 *[http://ozeanmedia.com/political-consulting/why-libertarianism-is-wrong/ Why Libertarianism is Wrong]
 [[Category:Proposed Materials]]

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:32, 6 August 2017
Line 73:		Line 73:


		+	==Meta-Notes==
		+
		+	Note that if we want to make a book from this (it could easily get long enough) we have some decisions about how far we're going to stretch fair use. Especially as most of the sources we'd be referencing aren't going to be happy about our book or being targeted by it. Especially as some sources have pretty much the entirety of the raised objections pasted here.
		+
		+	===Sorting===
		+	Might be good to organize by types of objection. Maybe use the books on Murphaen philosophy as a structural reference.
		+
		+	Possible sort categories?
		+	*Economic (probably too broad)
		+	*Social (probably too broad)
		+	*Obnoxiousness (the objection or our responses to it? Snappy Answers to Obnoxious Questions about Libertarianism? Or is Snappy Answers a trademarked term?)
		+
		+	*Exploitation
		+	*Bad Manners
		+	*Messes
		+	*Responsibilities
		+	*Career Advancement
		+	*Death
		+	*Taxes


Line 80:		Line 99:
	*[http://ozeanmedia.com/political-consulting/why-libertarianism-is-wrong/ Why Libertarianism is Wrong]		*[http://ozeanmedia.com/political-consulting/why-libertarianism-is-wrong/ Why Libertarianism is Wrong]

−	Note that if we want to make a book from this (it could easily get long enough) we have some decisions about how far we're going to stretch fair use. Especially as most of the sources we'd be referencing aren't going to be happy about our book or being targeted by it. Especially as some sources have pretty much the entirety of the raised objections pasted here.

−	~~Might be good to organize by types of objection. Maybe use the books on Murphaen philosophy as a structural reference.~~	+	[[Category:Proposed Materials]]